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.interview
with Damijan Kocjancic(b) on the 27.2.2005 in the KUD France Presern in
Ljubljana _
miha(a) and metka(c)
a.So first question... Photography, voerismus. What is you position towrads
photographical voerismus?
b.Voerismus? How? In what sense?
c.How to you feel when your behind camera?
a.When "your stealling moments"?
b."Trn" that was presented in "gUF" was the only series
that I did like that. In princip I don´t like that kind of work.
What ever human, person does in his-hers life, it is always good to be
observer. But I don`t like putting my camera in the people´s faces.
All of my photography should be made in studio. To make things out of
my head. I´m looking and observing things, but afterwards I´m
made them on my way.
c.So you prefer to make photography in studio? That you make you stories,
that you´re...
b.Yes, like this. This concepts of "catching and stealling moments"
is to me...
c.You rather have and like inscinated photography?
b.It´s not about liking. Of course it is more beautiful if things
occure in your surroundings. But this are very fragile moments and the
presence of camera is disturbing them. And with me is also about the wish
for my own stories.
a.What do you think that attract people on the photography? The beuty?
Shock? Nice composition? New presentation form? What do you think...
c.that attract spectators?
b.There is so many spectators as there are people on this planet. But
in the sense what attract somebody, I think that everybody have his/her
our answer.
a.And what attracts you?
b.I´m attracted by the power of expression. When you feel the interpretation.
Objects of photography are in that sense unimportant. I can tell what
attracts me, but what attracts the other spectators I don´t know.
a.What do you think is important?
b.For me the imporatant thing is that the photographies can stay in time.
Timelessly non-engaged. And that her tension has more layers.
a.And if we´re talking about pictures...
b.photographies...
a...yes...Do you have any principal what would you never take a photographie
of?
c...for example that you can not...
a...that you can not...
c...that is repulsing you...
b.From one point of view we have to photograph everything. But personaly
I don´t want to be pushy with my camera. I don´t like paparazzies,
I don´t like to break in other people´s privacy. Did you see
the show here alias around us now?
a.Yes. Now. Very quick.
b.Well yes. And. You don`t need more.
a.Well yes, but...
b....of course it depends how things are made...
a.Yes...how things are made and presented...to go on to the next question.In
studio you make the scene, you put lights on some object or person, you
take the photography alias you make the picture and then the result is
not what you saw, what you expected? It means you took the moment, but
it didn´t came out as it was, as you saw it?
c.Because the eye sees a lot more then camera can take into the frame
of photographie. You see more and then camera can reproduce?
b.There is always a presence of something what is specific to the photography.
But with the time, work and practice you start incalculating this specific
in your process. When it all about the studio you always get the result
that you wanted. You determinet what will be on the photography.
a.I see this as a specific,legality of every artistic medium, which you
have to manipulate and which you have to control. Because...
b.This is why you can not be surprised, because you know what will be
on the film, on negative, what will be the photographic result.
a.Do you go to the show of other photographers?
b.In the recent time I don´t visit a lot of exhibitions. Because
I don´t have a working space, I don´t work a lot and I´m
a little bit out of the hole process, so also the interest in going down.
In this enviroment, athmosphere was the series "Trn" also made.
A kind of mental hygiene.
a.But you´re not interested in going on in this kind of documentary
direction. Because I think the "Trn" is in it´s content
and also in it´s presenation form a strong series and it... Were
you never intersted in following this process, this concept?
b.The series was interupted because of one invitation. So it wasn´t
finished like I would hoped to. Maybe I will finish it someday. But I
have a feeling, that I have outgrow this kind of work, this kind of concept.
In this kind of documentary concept my process doesn´t come to a
real effort, with other words this kind of photography doesn´t develop
me anymore. Maybe sometimes I´ll go back, because you can never
know what and how you´ll work in the future.
a.When did you actually start with photography?
b.What do I know. In the 6th alias 7th grad of the elementary school.
a.What was the startingpoint?
b.We had a dark-room at home. So at first I was getting to know dark-room
and the development, the process in there. Papa was tahing photographies
alias the camera was a normal thing at home. Till the studies of photography
my education was at home, I did it alone.
a.How important is a technic and technology to you?
b.Equipment is a tool. Certain things can´t be done without technology,
without equipment. Otherwise I don´t see technology in a exaggerated
sense.
a.Do you work in studio with unperfect lenses and camera?
b.No. Now I have quit good equipment for doing stuio photography. For
small format cameras I have some not so good lenses. In fact almost every
turist has a better small format equipment. But at the same time I did
all my works with this(not such good) equipment. Of course I would have
better technology, better eqiupment, but now it isn´t line on her.
c.But could you work without it?
b.Certain things I could do, but certain not.
c.You said alias were talking that you don`t have a studio?
b.Yes. I don´t have suitable space for work. This can be a problem
in Ljubljana. There where I have a small studio are my neighbours some
music groups, a joiner and under me is a club. Because we have wooden
flour the space is vibrating all the time.
c.Digital, analog? Do you see and makes difference or you don´t
care?
b.Digital technology I used when I do stuff for other people. For me and
my things I always do on negative, on film.
c.So you would never do you stuff with digital equipment?
b.I used to do my things also with digital technology. Photography with
title "2012" was made with digital camera and it was made in
´95 alias ´97. It was interesting then to do it digital, but
I don´t have any special fascination with digital photography. The
fine, fragile photographies can not be made with digital equipment, because
there are still some mistakes, lacks with the digital technology.
a.We talked about the document as repotage which doesn´t interest
you, but where do you look, find inspiration for your motives? Are the
stories pure fiction or do they came out of documents, from the world
around you?
b.I already said and we talked about that you have to be a observer. So
the things came out of observing, out of a kind of document. But the interpretation
comes from me and the studio is only a execution space.
a.Do you sometimes reconstruct details from reality in your studio or
are they all new constructions?
b.No. I usually do my own stuff, my own constructions.
a.Every individual is in his/hers development going through process of
getting to know other authors, other pespectives, other positions. Were
you already then and are you also now more interested in photographers
who work in studio or are you also fascinated by other authors who work
with documentary photography?
b.I´ve been thinking a lot about this, but I must say I don´t
have any idols. I´ve been more influenced by some singel photographies,
that I´ve like and I´ve remembered them. To say, that I´ve
been change by any other photographer and his way of working, his position,
no. But that doesn´t mean that I don´t respect old alias other
authors.
a.Are in this archive of other photographies you like and have in your
memory any documentary photographies?
b.There are some photographies for them I think that they have a moment
which is repeating through histroy. Where this moment is not only actuall
happening. With the document I always interested how or what is his influence
going to be. Because engaged document can with the spectator also have
unwanted alias not right response. I think we have to go away from only
reflecting things. In my opinion the intention of reportage alias documentary
photography is existance through time.
a.How do you see the connection between theory and practice? How do you
understand text that we´ve been written about you? Did the authors
of this texts understand you and your work, did their words had a big
impact on you and your work, your process that followed?
b.The contact between theory and practice is a normal thing. About texts
descreibing my work I had it all. There were those where you could see
that somebody didn´t understand your work and there are such texts
very you´re surprised in a positive way. The texts still didn´t
have a kind of long term influence on me, but a real reason for missing
this influence of texts is also the reason of my broken work continuity.
That´s missing of the real working space.
a.If we´re looking at the "TRN" series the massage is
going/coming back to society. Do you have a feeling that you´ve
just reflected a moment or did you leave a massage alais this social context-problem-fact
on purpose? this social context was also main point in a text written
about "TRN". Here you´re in a kind of a game, reporting-documentating
alias taking and giving back to society?
b.Project "TRN" was made because of the society alias of course
has this social context. Also someother works I did have it. But it´s
a fact, that "TRN" is my most documentary work. Interesting
is, that with "TRN"(and also with "Lice"), the startingpoints
for projects were my texts, my project descriptions and after them I´ve
started working on photographies. So a lot of theoretical ideas and concepts
used in texts about this two projects camo out if my text, my descriptions.
a.Also with the portrets of people from Metelkova(alias project "Lice")
a question why such a documentary project came to my mind?
b. Metelkova was a lot of times and also then, befor the project "Lice"
was made, at the point where city was trying to tear her down, to demolish
it. In that time(1999) there was a lot of presure, a lot of energy was
put into discreditating Metelkova. So it was a need to show, that a lot
of art(cultural) production is going on behid that walls for which people
of Ljubljana and Slovenia didn´t know. Project "Lice"
was made for the city council and for the people of Ljubljana. And then
for all people of Slovenia. It was a kind of step against demolishing,
against the politics which is for her own propuses putting everything
in the same basket. This were the two main reason why "Lice"
was made, beside the idea, that anyone who sees this photographies could
also feel the aesthetic potention, the art value of them. I wanted that
anyone could decode this photographies, also the individuals who are not
educated in a field of photographie, in a field of art. Somebody who can
read photographies could see, that in fact "Lice" is all on
big portret, one expression.
a.If I understand right, "Lice" was precisely that what you
were saying about the documentary series should have and be. Alias that
a documentary image has a massage, a statment that is working and moving
back to society, back to the reality. So then maybe a right made photographies
could stop the war?
b."Lice" has in this point succed. The documents, photographies
of the war could not stopped the war. The things that should be photographed
are not available, are inaccessible. And if you could take such pictures,
then it would be hard to published them, because that would be quit a
risk and as we know the editorial concept is a political one, it´s
all about cenzorship. Beside that, war is a lot of times not there where
we see and think it is.
a.To understand and conceptualize works like that is quit a work. As I
see in a lot of so called documentary series the real social engagement
is missing. PHotographers are just looking for a good motive and moment
alias they don´t think about how this will influence reality?
b.That´s the real problem. There is to little education, to little
awarness around. But not in a sense of school-academny-photographic knowlendge.
People are not educated in a...
a...kind of human sense...
b....yes. People don´t know what is going on in the front of their
eyes. Important thing is interdisciplinary education, a wide angel, wide
basis of knowledge. What is missing is observation in more layers. To
know how to use photo-equipment is not enough. Problem is, that this kind
of unaware, humanitarly uneducated photographers who are seeking only
for a shocking incident, event are providing images for the hole world.
c.What is your relationship towards concept of composition? Do you have
some vision, ideas how to do it?
b.It all depends what is in photography, what he or she would like to
say, to state.
a.Are you maybe using some already know compositions for histroy of art?
b.All that you do in life, all what you create goes out alias is made
out of what you know. Art theory, art history and other knowledge is in
you. Uncosciosness. But that I would consciosnly copy some compositions
taken from other artworks...no.It´s also doesn´t mean so much
to me. The composition is demanded by photography, by the picture itself
alias by what you want and what you need.
c.Do you have afeeling that photography is losing on interested from people?
Do you think people are still interested in photography no matter of the
so called "new media revolution"?
b.Do you mean in Slovenia or abroad?
c.In general?
b.There is a lot of interest for photography in the world and I think
we don´t need fear of losing it. Every art medium has it´s
own specifics and charm and no other medium can´t replace it.
c.What is that you what to do with photography?
b.As I already said. I want a photography to be timeless, that she´ll
stay and have it´s energy forever, not only connected with one moment
in time.
c.And a massages? Statments? Are they hidden or are they coming in front?
b.The meaning and visual statment must function in more layers, more levels.
Here comes also the question and meaning of the composition. The composition
of image is a consequence, is a result of mental composition. And mental
composition is also a state of awakness.
c.It is ever happend to you, that you get surprised by your own work?
Do you find anything new in them?
b.Yes. Some of them yes. After a while I also see and discover which photography
mean something more to me.
c.What is you attitudes towards negatives? When you finished taking photographies
do you save the negatives for possible use in the future, for possible
enlargment or do you finished with certain negative when photography is
in right presentation form?
b.I save negatives as originals. I archive them without and intention
of what I´ll do with them. I saved them on some good place, where
they are handy alias where I know that they are there if I would need
them.
c.Do you ever look in this archives? Did you ever had a feeling that one
thing is not finished and you finished it some time later?
b.Yes it already happend to me that I´ve finished a process long
time after the photographies were taken. That was in the past, when I
had my own dark-room. Now the negatives are a little bit disorganized.
They are in some maps, but I don´t know where. I don´t look
back at them anymore. In fact in the last years I don´t do my own
photography anymore, so...
c.But you still have interest in doing it or did you stop doing your own
photography?
b.I don´t know what will happend. It´s not about that my purpous
is to stop doing photography. It´s all about the fact that I don´t
have a space to work in and that also why "Lice" and "TRN"
as documentary works were made. And now I´m doing some other stuff.
It´s a pitty that city council of Ljubljana is not capible of answering
on some needs of production spaces. This is why I have to look and work
alone. And there is too much stuff, that I could also concentrate on my
art. In fact I´m not doing the only thing I should be doing.
a.And one last, a bit practical question. With your series and photographies
do you know in advance what will the presentation form of the photographies
be?
b.It depends on the work. With series I usually know how and where I´ll
place them. With singel photographies I leave the concept and the idea
alias form of presentation open till the last moment.
a. in c.thank you and looking forward to over futur discussions.
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